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	<title>Comments on: Joe Horn cleared by grand jury in Pasadena shootings</title>
	<atom:link href="http://texasfred.net/archives/1317/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1317</link>
	<description>News Opinion Commentary</description>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1317/comment-page-1#comment-11794</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 01:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1317#comment-11794</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll admit that I was a little dismayed by the comments at the Houston Chronicle (not being a Texan myself). In fact, I found them downright scary. But I feel a million times better now that I have stumbled across this blog. It&#039;s good to see thoughtful discussion on the consequences of this verdict. It&#039;s also good to see that not everyone in Texas thinks this guy is some kind of hero. His actions were abhorrent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll admit that I was a little dismayed by the comments at the Houston Chronicle (not being a Texan myself). In fact, I found them downright scary. But I feel a million times better now that I have stumbled across this blog. It&#8217;s good to see thoughtful discussion on the consequences of this verdict. It&#8217;s also good to see that not everyone in Texas thinks this guy is some kind of hero. His actions were abhorrent.</p>
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		<title>By: TexasFred</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1317/comment-page-1#comment-11781</link>
		<dc:creator>TexasFred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1317#comment-11781</guid>
		<description>topnotch, &quot;Will all Texans be judged by Joe Horn ????&quot;

From some of the comments I have seen in the Houston Chron and some other blogs, yeah, we&#039;re ALL a bunch of idiots because Horn is and the Jury got it ALL wrong... 

Guilt by association...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>topnotch, &#8220;Will all Texans be judged by Joe Horn ????&#8221;</p>
<p>From some of the comments I have seen in the Houston Chron and some other blogs, yeah, we&#8217;re ALL a bunch of idiots because Horn is and the Jury got it ALL wrong&#8230; </p>
<p>Guilt by association&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: topnotch</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1317/comment-page-1#comment-11778</link>
		<dc:creator>topnotch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1317#comment-11778</guid>
		<description>Plain and simple Joe Horn is a &quot;killer&quot; who was just waiting for the right opportunity and Joe Horn is just a back shooting coward. The law of the harvest is still in effect Joe. What goes around comes around. Joe Will you be watching over your shoulder for the the rest of your life. Will your guilt take its toll on you. Will all Texans be judged by Joe Horn ????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Plain and simple Joe Horn is a &#8220;killer&#8221; who was just waiting for the right opportunity and Joe Horn is just a back shooting coward. The law of the harvest is still in effect Joe. What goes around comes around. Joe Will you be watching over your shoulder for the the rest of your life. Will your guilt take its toll on you. Will all Texans be judged by Joe Horn ????</p>
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		<title>By: TexasFred</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1317/comment-page-1#comment-11756</link>
		<dc:creator>TexasFred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 02:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1317#comment-11756</guid>
		<description>ablur, Amen to that... 

I can&#039;t understand how so many people can be missing this point, excellent observation...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ablur, Amen to that&#8230; </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t understand how so many people can be missing this point, excellent observation&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: ablur</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1317/comment-page-1#comment-11755</link>
		<dc:creator>ablur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 02:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1317#comment-11755</guid>
		<description>The grand jury hurt American justice with their decision.  To toss the case when Horn is so clearly wrong on so many issues is an obscene carriage of justice.

Even a gratuitous punishment would have been better. Community service, parole sentencing, anything.

The Gun grabbers will have a field day with this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The grand jury hurt American justice with their decision.  To toss the case when Horn is so clearly wrong on so many issues is an obscene carriage of justice.</p>
<p>Even a gratuitous punishment would have been better. Community service, parole sentencing, anything.</p>
<p>The Gun grabbers will have a field day with this.</p>
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		<title>By: TexasFred</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1317/comment-page-1#comment-11744</link>
		<dc:creator>TexasFred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1317#comment-11744</guid>
		<description>BobF, there is only one thing you said that I have an issue with, &quot;This issue has divided even staunch conservatives who believe in the use of lethal force to protect themselves and their families.&quot;

This has brought together those that would protect their homes and families from threat of physical harm, it has also brought out some really stupid comments from folks that are a lot like Horn, they just want a chance to shoot someone and not be penalized FOR it...

In other words, they wish to become a vigilante and commit murder...

And if that thought pisses off those that sympathize with Mr. Horn, too damned bad, Horn is a murderer, no one was ever shot in the back that presented a clear and present danger...

Call it *The Cowboy Code*, call it what you like, only a COWARD shoots a man in the back, a coward or a homicidal maniac that is fulfilling his dream of taking a life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BobF, there is only one thing you said that I have an issue with, &#8220;This issue has divided even staunch conservatives who believe in the use of lethal force to protect themselves and their families.&#8221;</p>
<p>This has brought together those that would protect their homes and families from threat of physical harm, it has also brought out some really stupid comments from folks that are a lot like Horn, they just want a chance to shoot someone and not be penalized FOR it&#8230;</p>
<p>In other words, they wish to become a vigilante and commit murder&#8230;</p>
<p>And if that thought pisses off those that sympathize with Mr. Horn, too damned bad, Horn is a murderer, no one was ever shot in the back that presented a clear and present danger&#8230;</p>
<p>Call it *The Cowboy Code*, call it what you like, only a COWARD shoots a man in the back, a coward or a homicidal maniac that is fulfilling his dream of taking a life.</p>
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		<title>By: BobF</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1317/comment-page-1#comment-11742</link>
		<dc:creator>BobF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1317#comment-11742</guid>
		<description>Sorry folks but if I see someone robbing your house, I&#039;ll try to stop them but I won&#039;t kill them.  Of course, I&#039;ll be armed and order them to lie on the ground but if they walk or run away, then they&#039;ll keep walking or running because I won&#039;t kill another person over stuff.

But, if I witness someone raping your wife or daughter, I&#039;ll put 230 grains of Full Metal Jacket somewhere in their head.   I&#039;ll take a life to protect mine or someone else&#039;s but I won&#039;t take one to protect stuff, not even mine.   That&#039;s why I pay big $$$$ to State Farm each year.  

Does anybody have any idea what it would be like to take another life, even in a righteous shooting?   What&#039;s it like to live with yourself after ending the life of another person?   Even combat veterans who have killed on the battlefield have difficulty with this.  That&#039;s why so many have PTSD.   Most never talk of it.  

This issue has divided even staunch conservatives who believe in the use of lethal force to protect themselves and their families.    What&#039;s going to happen is this ruling by the Grand Jury is going to cause those who are sitting on the fence between the use or non-use of of lethal force for self protection to fall to the other side.  Many people fought long and hard to get Castle Doctrine laws passed which allowed us to stand our ground.  This ruling goes against what Castle Doctrine was all about:  Defending yourself without having to retreat first.   Mr. Horn was never in any danger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry folks but if I see someone robbing your house, I&#8217;ll try to stop them but I won&#8217;t kill them.  Of course, I&#8217;ll be armed and order them to lie on the ground but if they walk or run away, then they&#8217;ll keep walking or running because I won&#8217;t kill another person over stuff.</p>
<p>But, if I witness someone raping your wife or daughter, I&#8217;ll put 230 grains of Full Metal Jacket somewhere in their head.   I&#8217;ll take a life to protect mine or someone else&#8217;s but I won&#8217;t take one to protect stuff, not even mine.   That&#8217;s why I pay big $$$$ to State Farm each year.  </p>
<p>Does anybody have any idea what it would be like to take another life, even in a righteous shooting?   What&#8217;s it like to live with yourself after ending the life of another person?   Even combat veterans who have killed on the battlefield have difficulty with this.  That&#8217;s why so many have PTSD.   Most never talk of it.  </p>
<p>This issue has divided even staunch conservatives who believe in the use of lethal force to protect themselves and their families.    What&#8217;s going to happen is this ruling by the Grand Jury is going to cause those who are sitting on the fence between the use or non-use of of lethal force for self protection to fall to the other side.  Many people fought long and hard to get Castle Doctrine laws passed which allowed us to stand our ground.  This ruling goes against what Castle Doctrine was all about:  Defending yourself without having to retreat first.   Mr. Horn was never in any danger.</p>
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		<title>By: TexasFred</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1317/comment-page-1#comment-11741</link>
		<dc:creator>TexasFred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1317#comment-11741</guid>
		<description>Basti, obviously, you have formed an opinion and haven&#039;t read the story...

A Pasadena cop, a plain clothes officer WITNESSED it ALL, he was already parked in front of Horns home...

And yeah, we DO disagree on this, no one has a right to commit MURDER, not for a goddamned burglary offense, not one that didn&#039;t take place in your home, self defense is one thing, a threat on your life or that of others is a legitimate reason to shoot, but BURGLARY is NOT a CAPITOL offense...

Bill, what part of this are you just not getting?? He interjected himself into a matter he had NO business becoming involved in, he shot 2 guys, IN THE BACK, and you don&#039;t see where he was maybe just a little off base??

Ya know, it&#039;s probably a good thing you never were a civilian cop, you would have gone to prison with the line of thought you have... 

Unf*cking believable!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Basti, obviously, you have formed an opinion and haven&#8217;t read the story&#8230;</p>
<p>A Pasadena cop, a plain clothes officer WITNESSED it ALL, he was already parked in front of Horns home&#8230;</p>
<p>And yeah, we DO disagree on this, no one has a right to commit MURDER, not for a goddamned burglary offense, not one that didn&#8217;t take place in your home, self defense is one thing, a threat on your life or that of others is a legitimate reason to shoot, but BURGLARY is NOT a CAPITOL offense&#8230;</p>
<p>Bill, what part of this are you just not getting?? He interjected himself into a matter he had NO business becoming involved in, he shot 2 guys, IN THE BACK, and you don&#8217;t see where he was maybe just a little off base??</p>
<p>Ya know, it&#8217;s probably a good thing you never were a civilian cop, you would have gone to prison with the line of thought you have&#8230; </p>
<p>Unf*cking believable!!</p>
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		<title>By: Basti</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1317/comment-page-1#comment-11740</link>
		<dc:creator>Basti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1317#comment-11740</guid>
		<description>Fred you know I disagree with you.  The law doesn&#039;t work any more or maybe it never did.  Citizens are going to have to become the law.  If he had waited for the cops these guys would have either been long gone or arrested and out on bail before the next day and be at it again.  The way it is these perps won&#039;t even do it again.

In addition if memory serves the perps were illegal aliens (Correct me if I&#039;m wrong) and as far as I&#039;m concerned illegals should be shot on sight, in the back or otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fred you know I disagree with you.  The law doesn&#8217;t work any more or maybe it never did.  Citizens are going to have to become the law.  If he had waited for the cops these guys would have either been long gone or arrested and out on bail before the next day and be at it again.  The way it is these perps won&#8217;t even do it again.</p>
<p>In addition if memory serves the perps were illegal aliens (Correct me if I&#8217;m wrong) and as far as I&#8217;m concerned illegals should be shot on sight, in the back or otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: TexasFred</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1317/comment-page-1#comment-11735</link>
		<dc:creator>TexasFred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 05:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1317#comment-11735</guid>
		<description>Top Gun, some chapter and verse citation would go a long ways towards that statement... 

Like maybe Texas Penal Codes??

I know the codes but I&#039;m not looking em up and posting them for you, I also know the SCOTUS ruling on the &lt;em&gt;Fleeing felon rule&lt;/em&gt; but citation is on you...

Chapter AND Verse...

And be aware, even a commissioned officer CAN&#039;T shoot a fleeing felon unless said felon has just committed a CAPITOL offense and said officer fears that the fleeing felon presents a clear and present danger to him or to those in the immediate proximity, the key words here are &lt;em&gt;FLEEING&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;imminent danger&lt;/em&gt;, and Horn shot these guys in the back... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Top Gun, some chapter and verse citation would go a long ways towards that statement&#8230; </p>
<p>Like maybe Texas Penal Codes??</p>
<p>I know the codes but I&#8217;m not looking em up and posting them for you, I also know the SCOTUS ruling on the <em>Fleeing felon rule</em> but citation is on you&#8230;</p>
<p>Chapter AND Verse&#8230;</p>
<p>And be aware, even a commissioned officer CAN&#8217;T shoot a fleeing felon unless said felon has just committed a CAPITOL offense and said officer fears that the fleeing felon presents a clear and present danger to him or to those in the immediate proximity, the key words here are <em>FLEEING</em> and <em>imminent danger</em>, and Horn shot these guys in the back&#8230;</p>
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