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	<title>Comments on: The Castle Doctrine: Explanation, Interpretation and Opinions</title>
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		<title>By: Bushwack</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1319/comment-page-1#comment-11852</link>
		<dc:creator>Bushwack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 19:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1319#comment-11852</guid>
		<description>&quot;while fleeing…&quot; is the operative word I think, I commend Joe Horn for his willingness to get involved.  I think he should have done as the operator suggested, I think he could have followed them and provided an eyes on service for the police, I think he could have shot them in the leg... all of these things HE should have, or could have done and we would not be having this conversation.

Just like everything else looking backward it&#039;s easy to suggest what should have happened. Horn killed TWO criminals, HORN was and is a MORON for doing it. However; I am not going bitch about &quot;he should be in jail&quot; or &quot; he is giving folks ammo to grab my gun&quot;... While it may be true we have been fighting the gun battle ever since Libs had a voice, and we will continue until they are either dead, or they succeed....This will neither help nor hurt the cause in the long run.

Until the US Justice system corrects some of the injustices to the PEOPLE, I will take this as &quot;The PEOPLE&quot; won one.

just an FYI, I don&#039;t think Joe is a hero, I think the marine that killed the subway robbers is a HERO. The only difference between the two instances was the MARINE was not told by the operator to stay in the house. The Marine, didn&#039;t save a life.. The Marine didn&#039;t protect HIS property, he stepped in and eliminated some thugs... Bottom line in both of these instances is 4 CRIMINALS are dead, and I don&#039;t cry for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;while fleeing…&#8221; is the operative word I think, I commend Joe Horn for his willingness to get involved.  I think he should have done as the operator suggested, I think he could have followed them and provided an eyes on service for the police, I think he could have shot them in the leg&#8230; all of these things HE should have, or could have done and we would not be having this conversation.</p>
<p>Just like everything else looking backward it&#8217;s easy to suggest what should have happened. Horn killed TWO criminals, HORN was and is a MORON for doing it. However; I am not going bitch about &#8220;he should be in jail&#8221; or &#8221; he is giving folks ammo to grab my gun&#8221;&#8230; While it may be true we have been fighting the gun battle ever since Libs had a voice, and we will continue until they are either dead, or they succeed&#8230;.This will neither help nor hurt the cause in the long run.</p>
<p>Until the US Justice system corrects some of the injustices to the PEOPLE, I will take this as &#8220;The PEOPLE&#8221; won one.</p>
<p>just an FYI, I don&#8217;t think Joe is a hero, I think the marine that killed the subway robbers is a HERO. The only difference between the two instances was the MARINE was not told by the operator to stay in the house. The Marine, didn&#8217;t save a life.. The Marine didn&#8217;t protect HIS property, he stepped in and eliminated some thugs&#8230; Bottom line in both of these instances is 4 CRIMINALS are dead, and I don&#8217;t cry for them.</p>
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		<title>By: TexasFred</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1319/comment-page-1#comment-11851</link>
		<dc:creator>TexasFred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 15:21:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1319#comment-11851</guid>
		<description>Gawfer, and THAT is the exact point I have been trying to make, Horn did more to HURT the honest, and legal gun owner than anything the left could have come up with...

I know Rob says that the *bad guys* are the ones doing the crimes and making things tough for gun owners, and that&#039;s true, but even the loony libbers know their argument is hollow when using the criminal element in tirades against LEGAL gun ownership...

The *bad guys* don&#039;t buy guns, they steal em, Horn bought his, legally, and the idea of HOME defense was his claimed intent... 

I am ALL for HOME defense, but Horn used a skewed view of The Castle Doctrine and became judge, jury and executioner, all for a crime that was nowhere close to being a CAPITAL offense...&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;b&gt;capital offense n.&lt;/b&gt; any criminal charge which is punishable by the death penalty, called &quot;capital&quot; since the defendant could lose his/her head (Latin for caput). Crimes punishable by death vary from state to state and country to country. In some American states these offenses may include first degree murder (premeditated), murder with special circumstances (such as intentional, multiple, involved with another crime, with guns, of a police officer, or a repeat offense), and rape with additional bodily harm, and the federal crime of treason. A charge of a capital offense usually means no bail will be allowed.&lt;/blockquote&gt;And in my not so uneducated, and less than humble opinion, Horn himself is guilty of premeditated murder...&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Premeditated murder&lt;/strong&gt; is the crime of wrongfully causing the death of another human being (also known as murder) after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension. State laws in the United States vary as to definitions of &quot;premeditation.&quot; In some states, premeditation may be construed as taking place mere seconds before the murder. Premeditated murder is usually defined as one of the most serious forms of homicide, and is punished more severely than manslaughter or other types of murder.&lt;/blockquote&gt;When we become a nation that can allow a person to plainly state, &quot;I&#039;m going out there and I&#039;m gonna kill &#039;em, I can&#039;t let em get away with this&quot;, when we allow that to happen, we are empowering people like Horn to take actions that are above the law and all but granting them immunity for doing so...

Commit a CAPITAL offense and I am all for punching your ticket to hell, and do not stutter in saying so, invade my home with me in it and I will personally punch your ticket, THAT is what the Castle Doctrine is supposed to cover, but I will call a murderer (Horn) just exactly what he is, a murderer, and I will damn anyone that calls him a hero...

And I will call a burglar what he is as well, scum of the earth, but still not on the *fire at will* list in the yard while fleeing... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gawfer, and THAT is the exact point I have been trying to make, Horn did more to HURT the honest, and legal gun owner than anything the left could have come up with&#8230;</p>
<p>I know Rob says that the *bad guys* are the ones doing the crimes and making things tough for gun owners, and that&#8217;s true, but even the loony libbers know their argument is hollow when using the criminal element in tirades against LEGAL gun ownership&#8230;</p>
<p>The *bad guys* don&#8217;t buy guns, they steal em, Horn bought his, legally, and the idea of HOME defense was his claimed intent&#8230; </p>
<p>I am ALL for HOME defense, but Horn used a skewed view of The Castle Doctrine and became judge, jury and executioner, all for a crime that was nowhere close to being a CAPITAL offense&#8230;<br />
<blockquote><b>capital offense n.</b> any criminal charge which is punishable by the death penalty, called &#8220;capital&#8221; since the defendant could lose his/her head (Latin for caput). Crimes punishable by death vary from state to state and country to country. In some American states these offenses may include first degree murder (premeditated), murder with special circumstances (such as intentional, multiple, involved with another crime, with guns, of a police officer, or a repeat offense), and rape with additional bodily harm, and the federal crime of treason. A charge of a capital offense usually means no bail will be allowed.</p></blockquote>
<p>And in my not so uneducated, and less than humble opinion, Horn himself is guilty of premeditated murder&#8230;<br />
<blockquote><strong>Premeditated murder</strong> is the crime of wrongfully causing the death of another human being (also known as murder) after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension. State laws in the United States vary as to definitions of &#8220;premeditation.&#8221; In some states, premeditation may be construed as taking place mere seconds before the murder. Premeditated murder is usually defined as one of the most serious forms of homicide, and is punished more severely than manslaughter or other types of murder.</p></blockquote>
<p>When we become a nation that can allow a person to plainly state, &#8220;I&#8217;m going out there and I&#8217;m gonna kill &#8216;em, I can&#8217;t let em get away with this&#8221;, when we allow that to happen, we are empowering people like Horn to take actions that are above the law and all but granting them immunity for doing so&#8230;</p>
<p>Commit a CAPITAL offense and I am all for punching your ticket to hell, and do not stutter in saying so, invade my home with me in it and I will personally punch your ticket, THAT is what the Castle Doctrine is supposed to cover, but I will call a murderer (Horn) just exactly what he is, a murderer, and I will damn anyone that calls him a hero&#8230;</p>
<p>And I will call a burglar what he is as well, scum of the earth, but still not on the *fire at will* list in the yard while fleeing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Gawfer</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1319/comment-page-1#comment-11850</link>
		<dc:creator>Gawfer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 14:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1319#comment-11850</guid>
		<description>Yesterday at lunch, I got to see first hand the beginnings of the &#039;blow back&#039;.

CNN ran a story called Vigilante Justice featuring a play by play account from Mr horn, walking on his property and posturing an imaginary shotgun.

The lefty media will sing the Feinstein song of gun control until the liberal left shouts in chorus. That can only hurt my right to bear arms; if not now, soon.

Like Rob said, Horn got away with murder. He really needs to keep his mouth shut.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yesterday at lunch, I got to see first hand the beginnings of the &#8216;blow back&#8217;.</p>
<p>CNN ran a story called Vigilante Justice featuring a play by play account from Mr horn, walking on his property and posturing an imaginary shotgun.</p>
<p>The lefty media will sing the Feinstein song of gun control until the liberal left shouts in chorus. That can only hurt my right to bear arms; if not now, soon.</p>
<p>Like Rob said, Horn got away with murder. He really needs to keep his mouth shut.</p>
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		<title>By: TexasFred</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1319/comment-page-1#comment-11849</link>
		<dc:creator>TexasFred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 14:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1319#comment-11849</guid>
		<description>Kris, I&#039;m not the only one that sees it or got it right but I&#039;m one of the very few...

I was simply astounded at the people that called Horn a hero, he did the world a favor by capping those 2 but it wasn&#039;t his place to do so, and I will die believing Horn is nothing more that an angry old fart that had a secret desire to kill...

Well, he got to realize that desire and I believe many of my cohorts are thinking with their hearts and not their heads, and that can be quite dangerous, some of the thoughts in this thread are prime examples of how people like Horn come to be and why there is a *mob* mentality in all too many incidents...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kris, I&#8217;m not the only one that sees it or got it right but I&#8217;m one of the very few&#8230;</p>
<p>I was simply astounded at the people that called Horn a hero, he did the world a favor by capping those 2 but it wasn&#8217;t his place to do so, and I will die believing Horn is nothing more that an angry old fart that had a secret desire to kill&#8230;</p>
<p>Well, he got to realize that desire and I believe many of my cohorts are thinking with their hearts and not their heads, and that can be quite dangerous, some of the thoughts in this thread are prime examples of how people like Horn come to be and why there is a *mob* mentality in all too many incidents&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: kris</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1319/comment-page-1#comment-11847</link>
		<dc:creator>kris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 13:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1319#comment-11847</guid>
		<description>&quot;I don’t think anyone disputes the legal issue, I think the GJ got it wrong too… ANYONE with half a brain that knows the facts of the case would see that Horn acted in a way the jeopardized the lives of himself and law enforcement, and cost the lives of two criminals&quot;.

Perhaps I got the wrong end of the stick. My understanding was that some were of the view Joe is some sort of hero. 

Cut out all the emotion and irrevelance and Joe Horn is a murderer. Simple as that. My props to Fred is because he seems to be the only guy on the blogosphere who gets that. Not only does he get it, he can see the blowback of this decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I don’t think anyone disputes the legal issue, I think the GJ got it wrong too… ANYONE with half a brain that knows the facts of the case would see that Horn acted in a way the jeopardized the lives of himself and law enforcement, and cost the lives of two criminals&#8221;.</p>
<p>Perhaps I got the wrong end of the stick. My understanding was that some were of the view Joe is some sort of hero. </p>
<p>Cut out all the emotion and irrevelance and Joe Horn is a murderer. Simple as that. My props to Fred is because he seems to be the only guy on the blogosphere who gets that. Not only does he get it, he can see the blowback of this decision.</p>
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		<title>By: Gawfer</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1319/comment-page-1#comment-11801</link>
		<dc:creator>Gawfer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 13:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1319#comment-11801</guid>
		<description>You mocketh thou!

My suit is Grey with a big Bat on the front!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mocketh thou!</p>
<p>My suit is Grey with a big Bat on the front!</p>
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		<title>By: Bushwack</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1319/comment-page-1#comment-11798</link>
		<dc:creator>Bushwack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1319#comment-11798</guid>
		<description>kris, I don&#039;t think anyone disputes the legal issue, I think the GJ got it wrong too... ANYONE with half a brain that knows the facts of the case would see that Horn acted in a way the jeopardized the lives of himself and law enforcement, and cost the lives of two criminals.

All of that is fact, it is also fact that the Grand Jury slipped up and let him off the hook, and for that I say ok fair enough. 
AS many times as pedophiles/murderers/rapists and thieves are let off the hook by ubber liberal judges and then go out and re-commit crimes against the innocent, this time at least the good guy got away with it.. (And I use the term good guy only in lieu of a better word for NOT the one in the act of crime when the incident occurred)

I am not in any way condoning what Horn did, it was stupid, it was dumb it was all kinds of idiot wrapped up in a bunch of ignorant...BUT the same grand jury system is responsible for far worse findings across the nation.  In perspective this finding of the grand jury is not going to cause me to lose any sleep, neither would I have been sleepless if they found reason to hold it over for trial.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kris, I don&#8217;t think anyone disputes the legal issue, I think the GJ got it wrong too&#8230; ANYONE with half a brain that knows the facts of the case would see that Horn acted in a way the jeopardized the lives of himself and law enforcement, and cost the lives of two criminals.</p>
<p>All of that is fact, it is also fact that the Grand Jury slipped up and let him off the hook, and for that I say ok fair enough.<br />
AS many times as pedophiles/murderers/rapists and thieves are let off the hook by ubber liberal judges and then go out and re-commit crimes against the innocent, this time at least the good guy got away with it.. (And I use the term good guy only in lieu of a better word for NOT the one in the act of crime when the incident occurred)</p>
<p>I am not in any way condoning what Horn did, it was stupid, it was dumb it was all kinds of idiot wrapped up in a bunch of ignorant&#8230;BUT the same grand jury system is responsible for far worse findings across the nation.  In perspective this finding of the grand jury is not going to cause me to lose any sleep, neither would I have been sleepless if they found reason to hold it over for trial.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Sperry</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1319/comment-page-1#comment-11797</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Sperry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1319#comment-11797</guid>
		<description>Well Chris, then I have to imagine that you support the ex post facto provision of the &quot;domestic violence&quot; provision of the Lautenberg Act.

I believe that this all comes down to common sense. Horn is an idiot, and probably a felon. But I will also say this: If I heard a terrible ruckus at my neighbors house, and I went out with a weapon, and I saw my friends wife laying battered and bloody?

I&#039;ll be judged by twelve, not buried by six...

As far as I am concerned, this thread is closed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Chris, then I have to imagine that you support the ex post facto provision of the &#8220;domestic violence&#8221; provision of the Lautenberg Act.</p>
<p>I believe that this all comes down to common sense. Horn is an idiot, and probably a felon. But I will also say this: If I heard a terrible ruckus at my neighbors house, and I went out with a weapon, and I saw my friends wife laying battered and bloody?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be judged by twelve, not buried by six&#8230;</p>
<p>As far as I am concerned, this thread is closed.</p>
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		<title>By: kris</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1319/comment-page-1#comment-11795</link>
		<dc:creator>kris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 05:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1319#comment-11795</guid>
		<description>As for my two penneth? Maybe a bit late, but Fred is spot on. I teach criminal law and think I&#039;d struggle to write a better explanation of the legal position of the case than Fred did here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for my two penneth? Maybe a bit late, but Fred is spot on. I teach criminal law and think I&#8217;d struggle to write a better explanation of the legal position of the case than Fred did here.</p>
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		<title>By: Gawfer</title>
		<link>http://texasfred.net/archives/1319/comment-page-1#comment-11792</link>
		<dc:creator>Gawfer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://texasfred.net/?p=1319#comment-11792</guid>
		<description>WTF?!

HUNNY, WHERE&#039;S MY SUPER SUIT?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WTF?!</p>
<p>HUNNY, WHERE&#8217;S MY SUPER SUIT?!</p>
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