I do know that in Louisiana, a traffic citation (ticket) is a form of arrest. In fact, a traffic citation is issued in lieu of arrest, as traffic violations are arrestable offenses.

Only one time in my career have I ever had to arrest and book a violator because she refused to sign the citation. I explained who I was, what agency I work for, and the reason that I initiated a traffic stop on her. The woman was rude and disrespectful during the whole time I was filling out the citation.

When I explained to her that her signature was not an admission of guilt, and that it was only a promise to me that she would either take care of the fine by the date written on the citation, or that she would appear in city court on that day to contest the ticket, the lady told me that she was refusing to sign the ticket.

I then explained to her that if she did not sign the ticket, she would be arrested, as traffic violations were arrestable offenses. Basically, I gave her the whole spill and she stated that I could not arrest her for, in her case, running a red light. I then asked the lady where she worked. She stated that she worked in the nursing home across town.

I then told her that I would never go to her job and tell her what she could and could not do, and that I would appreciate it if she did not tell me what I could and could not do. I then instructed her to step out of her vehicle. I then instructed her to walk to the rear of the vehicle, turn around, and place her hands behind her back.

She then asked me if I was really going to arrest her. I told her that I most certainly was. She then began to beg and plead with me to let her sign the ticket. I told her that she had her chance and that now she was going to jail. I then advised her of her Miranda Rights and placed her in handcuffs. I called for a wrecker to come get her vehicle, while she sat in the rear of my patrol unit. When the wrecker was done, I transported her to the parish jail where she was cleared for incarceration and booked for being in violation of LA. R.S. 32:122–Disregarding Red Light.

In the case where the man was tasered, I would have done the same thing. If he was acting that way with me, then I feel it would have been warranted.

Put yourself in my position. I pull you over. For all I know you could be a little old lady, or you could be Chuck Norris and pissed, I don’t know if you have a gun, a hand grenade or a knife in your pocket, or if you have a dead body in the trunk, or if you just robbed a Taco Bell and are ready to kill me so that you don’t go to jail.

You just don’t know. So, what do I do? I conduct myself professionally, and courteously, and you are still acting like a complete ass and not listening to anything I say, then you reach into your pocket, after being instructed not to, and I taser you.

Now, maybe not in this instance, but in several others, officers have been killed, wounded, and paralyzed because they did not act quickly enough. I’ve been in this officer’s shoes, I’m still in them.

I have a beautiful fiance’ and a kick ass 1 year old son to go home to at the end of the day when I’m through “protecting and serving”.

My safety is important to me. Maybe the officer in this case should have just let him dig in his pockets? Maybe he should have let him pull out a snub-nose .38 special? Maybe he should have let the violator kill him?

Maybe not.

HE DESERVED TO GET TASED AND, IN MY OPINION, AND IF IT WERE ME, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN TASED SOONER.

In California, there are three levels of offenses: Felonies, Misdemeanors and Infractions. Many stops for “traffic” offenses only fall into the “infraction” category. You can ramp things up into the “misdemeanor” category with regard to suspicion of drunk driving, reckless driving and others. Felonies involve “hit and run,” with injury, weapons, etc. However, insofar as a stop for, say, running a stop sign goes, that is an infraction.

But please understand that the officer does not plot the course of the stop. The offender plots the course; the officer responds to the pattern of actions displayed by the offender.

In my time on the street, there were limited forms of defense available to officers: 1) Deadly force (handgun, shotgun), 2) Baton, 3) Mace 4) Hands-on/voice command.

These days, there is another level: “less than lethal” force, to include beanbag shotgun, Taser, 30mm, etc. In this instance, Taser is the issue.

Tasers were made available when the company proved their viability in the force continuum.

Officers (AND departments!) realized they didn’t necessarily have to go “hands-on” with offenders when they could, instead, substitute the Taser for the very intimate one-on-one application of a choke hold, grappling, ground-fighting, Koga.

They began to substitute the Taser for the interim portion where offenders refused to submit to a valid arrest and, historically, the general public NOW considers the usage of the Taser to be “cheating.”

That is to say that, these days, the public EXPECTS cops to go “toe-to-toe” with suspects and, failing that, the application of a Taser is “cheating.”

What happened to the part where the cop could LOSE the fight? they ask.

Give cops a tool, write it into their general orders, and then DON’T expect them to USE that tool?

Nonsense.

I’m pushing 60. If I’m in the street and carrying a yellow-handled Taser, I’ll use my Taser in EVERY application where, beforehand, I’d be EXPECTED to go “hands-on” with an offender. My job is to acquire the submission of the offender, NOT to be injured in the process and subject myself to unneeded injury and my department to my down-time, recovery and concomitant medical bills.

Further, specifically regarding this case, under California VC section 40302, refusal to sign the citation indicates that the offender DEMANDS to see a magistrate IMMEDIATELY, and lawfully mandates I place the offender under arrest NOW, to be transported to the nearest jail facility and then placed immediately onto the soonest court calendar so that the offender can make his or her plea in court. There is NO leeway in this area, in California; you refuse to sign the cite? You are going with me in my car, period, plain and simple.

If you get Tasered for resisting, oh well, I won’t sully my hands on you and I won’t have to get injured because of your actions. My department saves money, I survive my shift, you flop around a little, that’s the way it goes.

Get the fuck over it. The offender charts EVERY course on EVERY stop.

BZ

The driver was a punk and he acted as such.

The guy reached in his pocket, while walking away from the officer, NOT WISE, and he is lucky there are non-lethal force options available to the officers now.

As far as the driver being uncooperative, that is his right, he can choose to not sign the ticket, but he does not have the right to infringe on the officers right to do his job, or his right to go home when his shift is done rather than the morgue.
The minute he became belligerent and irate toward the officer, the officer is justified to be on guard. All the guy had to do was sign the ticket and fight it in court, signing it does not indicate guilt, it indicates you have received the ticket.

The drivers ignorance caused him to get a shocking education and he’s licky he didn’t get a lead lesson.

Stew Says:
November 23rd, 2007 at 2:22 pm I maintain that this was reprehensible behavior by the officer.

And I maintain that you are a total dumb-ass!

Stew Says:
November 23rd, 2007 at 2:22 pm
So if it IS a crime for that guy to not sign that ticket, then I’m completely wrong. So please, what crime did this guy commit? Is it illegal to not sign a ticket? I’d really like to know.

It IS a felony offense in some states, Utah apparently being one of those states, and as I said, YOUR ignorance IS showing…

I have some damn good sources, and a lot of personal experience, I speak of what I KNOW, you speculate and look the part of the fool in doing so…

Get this through your under-educated head, the asshole was speeding, alleged, that was the reason for the traffic stop according to the officer, THAT is the court case that said asshole can challenge at a later time, in TRAFFIC court, this was nothing more than a TRAFFIC violation until said asshole escalated the matter greatly by his refusal to sign the ticket…

Once said asshole refused to sign the citation, a felony had been committed, the officer placed said asshole under arrest for THAT offense, NOT the traffic offense or for being stupid, said asshole defied the officer, said asshole was attempting to walk away FROM the officer, and in doing so was guilty of resisting arrest, an additional charge, and he appears to be placing his hand in his right pocket, there by presenting a clear and present danger TO the officer, he refused to STOP and place his hands behind his back, even after several LAWFUL orders from the officer…

THAT was what led to the taser incident you dim bulb…

The asshole was damned lucky to be breathing when it was over, a lot of officers would have put a round into him…

And yeah, YOU are an uninvited guest, and I am not looking to impugn your honor, you have brought no honor to impugn, not in THIS thread, ALL I am doing is pointing out your massive ignorance and in this thread, IGNORANCE is ALL you have brought to the table, much like the other asshole, the one in the YouTube…

You’re conveniently ignoring that one must commit a crime to be arrested. And before anyone says that he did commit a crime [by speeding], that goes back to my statement that the officer is not the judge, jury and executioner. Does not signing a ticket constitute a crime? Because if I remember correctly the other alternative is for the officer and the complainent (sp?) to go to the courthouse to settle the matter. Signing the ticket is an agreement that the ticket has been delivered and that there is a tacit understanding for due process.

So if it IS a crime for that guy to not sign that ticket, then I’m completely wrong. If not, that officer, his sheriff, the county and municipalities are all probably getting sued.

So please, what crime did this guy commit? Is it illegal to not sign a ticket? I’d really like to know.

Before you call me ignorant, slam me for not being in law enforcement, or otherwise impugn me and my views you might want to postpone your prejudice and determine if I can postulate a reasonable scenario (open discourse). Or just tell me to shut up. It’s your site, I’m only an uninvited guest.

>He was argumentative from the start.

>Lawful orders had to be repeated several times, and I saw no language barrier.

>He refused to sign the ticket.

>He “acted the fool” outside of the vehicle, again refusing lawful orders. In that case, nonlethal force is JUSTIFIED.

As for reading his rights, that only has to be done if questioning is involved, there were no questions. His rights can be read to him upon arrival at the station.

The law has a time window to tell you of your charges.

Bottom Line:

Mr. Constitution watched WAY too much tv. He got a shocking education.