HOUSTON (AP) – The cha-chick of a shell entering a shotgun’s chamber rattled through the 911 line just before Joe Horn stepped out his front door. Horn, 61, had phoned police when he saw two men break into his neighbor’s suburban Houston home through a window in broad daylight. Now they were getting away with a bag of loot. “Don’t go outside the house,” the 911 operator pleaded. “You’re going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don’t care what you think.” “You want to make a bet?” Horn answered. “I’m going to kill them.” He did. Admirers, including several of his neighbors, say Horn is a hero for killing the burglars, protecting his neighborhood and sending a message to would-be criminals. Critics call him a loose cannon. His attorney says Horn just feared for his life. Full Story Here:
Texan Kills Thieves: Hero or Homicidal?
Strange that this was re-posted by AP today, you see, today I just happened to have received a private message from someone telling me that I need to shut the hell up with my anti-gun stance BS.
Now I’m thinking, anyone that has ever read my blog more than once or twice knows, I am anything BUT anti-gun, I am as big a supporter of the police and the wonderful job they do as anyone can be, I’m a gun owner, several guns, and I am avid shooter, in my younger days I was a competition pistol shooter, I hunted too, birds and deer, so, the ‘TexasFred is anti-gun’ BS won’t hold water, that said, I have my own opinions of this matter in Pasadena, TX.
In MY opinion, Joe Horn is a fool, there is no other way to say it, and the old boy is pretty lucky to still be alive.
Do I mourn the loss of the 2 burglars?? NO, I do not.
I feel they got what was more than likely an over due execution, my issue is with the way it happened and the behavior of Horn just prior to his interjecting himself into this situation, a situation for which he wasn’t trained to handle and was repeatedly ordered, DO NOT GO OUT THERE, several times, the Pasadena 9-1-1 dispatcher did HIS job, Horn ignored him and repeatedly said, “I’m going to kill them”, and that folks, can very well play out to being premeditated murder, no matter how you look at it, KILLING THEM was his intent, he placed himself in this situation, the burglars had not come into his home nor did they present a clear and present danger TO Horn, police were called and their arrival was imminent, and Horn went WAY over the boundaries of self preservation, had he remained in his home, as he was instructed to do, the police would have captured the 2 burglars and placed them in jail.
And again, my personal opinion is this, IF the 2 burglars had attempted to break in to Horns home, THEN he would have been more than justified in blowing these 2 to hell, but HE placed himself in danger by going out into his yard and initiating the face to face contact with the 2 as they were fleeing, that makes Horn the one in the wrong, he didn’t know where the burglars were and he had NO business going out of his house.
Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they could otherwise be killed. In some cases, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbors’ property; for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbor to watch over his property while he’s out of town.
And the neighbor asking him to ‘watch over’ his property is a fact that hasn’t been established as yet, I am guessing it WILL be a huge part of Horn’s defense, it’s most likely his only real hope for vindication, but then it ALL goes back to this, “I’m going to kill them”, that is a very incriminating statement, it can’t be denied and it is indicative of an intent to KILL regardless of the circumstances.
At issue is whether it was reasonable for Horn to fear the men and whether his earlier threats on the 911 call showed he planned to kill them no matter what, said Fred C. Moss, who teaches criminal law at Southern Methodist University in Dallas.
Horn quite likely was in fear of these individuals, it was obvious in the tone of his voice, but did they present an immediate, clear and present danger to Horn?? I think not, not as long as Horn followed the orders given him by the 9-1-1 dispatcher and stayed inside of HIS home.
My sincere belief is that Horn is a loose cannon, a person that was intent on killing 2 burglars, his own words convict him, and here is the bottom line, burglary of an inhabited dwelling is a felony, and the residents don’t have to be HOME for it to be considered an inhabited dwelling, but the shooting and killing of 2 unarmed burglars that present NO threat to you until YOU personally place yourself in a position of confrontation is wrong, Horn became judge, jury and executioner when HE attempted to take control of a situation that he had NO business becoming involved in.
I am anxiously awaiting the findings of the Harris County grand jury, this case can, and likely will, set more precedence than any similar case to date and could, in my opinion, cause the Texas Castle Law to be either elevated as Gospel or struck down entirely, it’s all interpretation.
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I’ve listened to the tape and I don’t think he stands a snowballs chance in Hell of coming out ahead. A prosecuting attorney that has his stuff together will paint him as a gun crazed killer looking for a reason to kill someone and unfortunately the tape backs this up.
If the guy wanted to confront the burglars, he should have never called 911. Like the outfitter in Montana said if you see a wolf while out hunting, you Shoot, Shovel, and Shut UP. Mr. Horn failed to Shut Up.
One thing I’ve learned from talking to legal types is that if you ever have to use deadly force to protect yourself, you NEVER talk to the police or anyone until you talk to your lawyer first. Even if you’re 100% in the right, one wrong word can send you to prison. Matter-of-fact, they even said not to use “souped up” hand loads but to use store bought factory ammo in your guns.
Horn, is one dumb fool.
Much will come out on this that we don’t know. His mental state at the time, etc, etc.
Maybe he had a bad childhood, that always seems to work. Maybe he thought they were Catholic Priest from younger days.
Look, if you’re stupid enough to call 911 and TELL the dispatcher that, from your point INSIDE your house, you’re going to exit the house and “KILL THEM,” then you deserve what you get. Just about every aspect of this incident stacks up against Horn. What you’ve likely got, at first blush, is an older man who refuses to listen to reason, TELLS the dispatcher he’s going to kill the two men and then does it. He even, at one point, ENSURED that the dispatcher HEARD the rack of the shotgun. Only an idiot does that.
Quite frankly, this has nothing to do with protecting property or being in fear of one’s life — and Horn went OUT OF HIS WAY to prove the OPPOSITE — it has everything to do with validating what Leftists think of gun owners and portraying Horn as nothing more than a beer-drinking, wife-beating, stained-T-shirt-wearing ignoramus. This Horn fellow doesn’t have the brains God gave the average houseplant.
BZ
The guy is a nut. He gives the gun taking left the reasons they need. I have no tolerance for people like this.
He gave the DA all he needs to convict him.
Yeah, he DID something, he committed MURDER…
I see your point on calling 911 and then letting the police do their job, calling 911 was the ONLY thing he did right, he didn’t allow the police to do their job, he took the law into his own hands and he killed the guys…
Some folks think he’s a hero, but what he really is, is a murderer, and I mean that in ALL sincerity, he murdered 2 unarmed men that presented NO threat to him until HE went out and initiated the confrontation…
Horn is a fool and I hope they lock the bastard up for a long time…
I applaud Horn for doing something, however what he did was ridiculously dumb.
Once he called 9-11, informed the operator of all pertinent information, his duty and HERO status was assure. Once he disobeyed the Operator, his status changed from Hero to Zero, he became no better than the criminals he killed.
IF Horn would have told the operator what was going on, where and when, and then hung up… Then it would have been up to CSI to determine the Guilt or innocence of Horn. Instead Horn did it for them.
Good Luck Mr.Horn, you’re going to need it.
One positive consequence of incidents such as this is the discussion that follows. The fact that pretty much the entire incident was caught on tape, gives us a lot to talk, and think about.
I have thought long and hard about what I would have done in Mr. Horn’s shoes.
Home alone during the daytime. Discover a burglary in progress at the neighbors house. What to do?
Many would dial 911 and leave it at that. Some would not even dial 911, no need to get involved.
What would I do?
I would have called 911 on my cell phone and given the appropriate details. I would not have run off at the mouth.
If the burglars looked as if they were going to get away, I would confront them, not with a shotgun, with a rifle. I would not knowingly and willingly allow some criminal to get away with stealing my neighbors property. No way. I have worked my entire life for what I have, and I assume my neighbors have also. If the criminals get away, the odds of getting the stolen items back is minimal. Criminal activity such as this must be confronted.
Shoot or not shoot? If they attempted to run, I would not shoot them unless I knew for a fact that they had stolen guns. Other than that, I would only shoot if necessary to protect my life.
JR, I know you’re a gun guy, but you aren’t a cop, and I am guessing you never were a cop…
All that is well and good but it’s best to leave LAW ENFORCEMENT to the police, the hero syndrome quickly turns into a death wish, yours and theirs…
What part of leave police work to the police do people NOT get here??
What part of Horn is now a murderer do people NOT understand??
What part of people like Horn are more dangerous to our RKBA than ANY bad guy is has everyone missed??
You come in MY house uninvited, as a burglar, and if I am here, trust me, I WILL send you straight to hell and I won’t bat an eye about doing it, but a private citizen is more likely to be hurt or killed, or ultimately arrested along with the bad guys for pulling stupid shit like this Horn guy did and going outside, against ALL orders, and placing himself in a position of of danger…
This is a part of having the concealed carry law I hate too, I have met a few folks with CCWs that had the good sense to know when and where a weapon is appropriate, but I have met many more that have NO business with a gun, I honestly believe they pass the written test and go to the range and qualify as being able to shoot and somehow there’s NO consideration given to the fact that this SOB wants nothing more than to be Charles Bronson when in reality they are nothing more than Barney Fife, without the badge…
For crying out loud folks, think of the damage that YOU are doing and the danger you are placing yourself in, and the danger you are placing the officers in because they don’t know you from Adam, all they know is BURGLARY IN PROGRESS and when they roll up, here’s a guy with a gun in hand, the situation just escalated at least 10 fold, so, you scream, “I am a citizen and they are the bad guys”, uh, how do I KNOW that??
So, instead of dealing with 2 suspects that are likely burglars, possibly armed and for damn sure dangerous, 2 individuals I need to focus my full and undivided attention on, I now have 3 individuals to deal with and one is brandishing a gun and screaming about not being a bad guy…
Lemme think, lemme think… Hmmmm…
These things have a tendency to NOT turn out well…
Follow orders and make it easy on the officers…
Stay in the goddamned house….
I do not think it has anything to do with heroism Fred, to me it is just doing what is right.
And I most definitely do not have any sort of a death wish. We are responsible for the safety and security of our neighborhoods. One way we provide for that safety and security is to hire police and elect those who will responsibly utilize those police. When the police are not around, the responsibility is still ours to shoulder.
I totally disagree with you JR, IF they break in to YOUR house, have at em, if he’s been IN your neighbors house and OUT and you have called the police, and YOU interject yourself into the equation, YOU are wrong and could very damn well end up dead if I am the cop rolling up on the scene of a burglary in progress and YOU are the 1st thing I see with a BIG GUN…
You’re going down, too bad, so sad, we can write “Misguided Hero” on your tombstone…
Call the cops, feed 911 ALL the info you can but follow directions, and stay in the house…
Duh…