NY cops fire 84 shots at suspect, who lives

NY cops fire 84 shots at suspect, who lives

Man charged with killing his sleeping kid sister

NEW YORK — Two Harlem cops yesterday fired a staggering 84 shots at an armed thug after he squeezed off one round at them — but the punk incredibly survived and was charged with slaying his sleeping kid sister and trying to kill their mother, authorities said.

The 3:30 a.m. explosion of gunfire terrified residents near 155th Street and Frederick Douglass Boulevard.

“It was like a shootout in the movies!” said one shocked tenant of the Polo Grounds Houses.

Steven Murray’s mother, Christine Fryar, 44, who was shot three times by her son, was shown his photo at Harlem Hospital and told cops, “That’s my son! That’s the animal who shot me and killed my daughter!” authorities said.

Murray, 28, suffered 14 bullet wounds during the mayhem after refusing police orders to drop his .22-caliber “Saturday Night Special,” officials said.

Full Story Here:
NY cops fire 84 shots at suspect, who lives

I am a police supporter, everyone that knows me, knows that. I don’t mean for this post to be a denigration of NYPD Officers on the street, but it’s going to sound a bit like it is. In fact, it is meant to be a WHAT THE HELL is NYPD BRASS THINKING kind of post.

So, here goes.

For the love of God and the safety of the citizens, 84 shots at LESS THAN 25 YARDS? And you hit this clown 14 times? Seriously? And with 14 rounds in the guy he wouldn’t drop his weapon? What is NYPD using for a sidearm and what type of ammo are they using? I have that info in here too, and I have to say, apparently, it’s damned sure not enough.

I do NOT blame the officers, not altogether, a big part of this travesty, and that is exactly what it is, a TRAVESTY, is the fact that the NYPD leadership has their heads buried in their collective asses, and it is placing the lives of Officers and innocent civilians in grave danger. Here are the specs regarding the weapons NYPD Officers can carry as sidearms.

Firearms

New NYPD officers are allowed to select one of three 9mm service pistols configured in double-action only (DAO): the SIG P226 DAO, Smith & Wesson model 5946, and Glock 19. All are modified to a 12-pound (53 N) trigger pull. Prior to 1994 the standard weapon of the NYPD was the Smith and Wesson Model 64 DAO (Double Action Only) .38 Special Revolver with three or four inch barrels. This type of revolver was called the Model NY-1 by the department. From 1926 until 1986 the standard weapons of the department were the Smith and Wesson Model 10 and the Colt Official Police .38 Special Revolvers with four inch barrels. Prior to the issuing of the 9mm semiautomatic pistol NYPD Detectives and plain clothes officers often carried the Colt Detective Special and/or the Smith & Wesson Model 36 “Chief’s Special” .38 Special caliber snub-nosed (2-inch) barrel revolvers for their easiness to conceal while dressed in civilian clothes. Officers who were issued revolvers prior to the transition to semi-automatic pistols on January 1, 1994, are “grandfathered” and if so can choose to continue to carry a revolver as a duty weapon.

New York City Police Department

As stated, I don’t blame *just* the officers, yeah, they fired 84 rounds, made 14 hits, but look at the caliber of the weapons, 9mm, and look at the *trigger pull* specification. A 12 pound trigger pull is absolutely UNREAL.

Most decent pistols, semi-autos, out of the box, are set at a 5 to 7 pound trigger pull, and for serious shooters, that is a bit too heavy. For a Cop on the street, shooting in a *high stress* situation, it’s a wonder they can hit anything at all.

Maybe now I can understand WHY there are so many instances where you hear of NYPD shootings happening and massive amounts of rounds being fired.

In the 2006 Sean Bell shooting, five cops fired 50 shots at several suspects. Asked whether the number of shots in this case was warranted, Browne said only, “There were numerous shots fired, and this was the circumstance under which they fired.”

As I understand it, there were quite a few *issues* with that particular shooting, but the FACT remains, 50 rounds were fired by NYPD officers. Do you suppose the exceptionally heavy *trigger pull* and the fact that it would be very difficult to put rounds on target may have been a factor?

Now, right here is where I may anger a few people, but as they say, if the truth hurts…

The NYPD carries a 9mm pistol as it’s standard duty weapon. A 9mm is one of the most ineffective, weak and totally useless rounds on the market today. For ANY Police Department to require its Officers to carry a 9mm is a sign that the Department is, in MY opinion, uncaring about effective stopping power as well as Officer and civilian safety.

Our military has been forced into carrying a 9mm due to political correctness and the desire of its leadership to acquiesce to NATO and the European mindset, and that round, the weak and ineffective 9mm, has gotten our troops killed. I am sure that if the full truth were known, at least *some* Police Officer deaths can be attributed to the 9mm round.

I know the military is prohibited from carrying a *hollow point* round but, if this post is accurate, New York Police Will Start Using Deadlier Bullets. Granted, the post is from 1998 and I have NO idea if NYPD still carries hollow point ammo.

Even in a hollow point configuration, a 9mm is, at best, less than adequate for most Police applications. A full blown *DUSTER*, a cretin wired up on Angel Dust, or PCP, can sustain numerous center mass hits from a 9mm, in ANY configuration, and still advance on you and inflict serious injury and/or death before a 9mm round will make his drugged out brain realize that he is, or, MAY BE, dead.

The subject of THIS particular story took 14 hits from NYPD sidearms, and he isn’t dead. A 9mm round is NOT a *man stopper* and is as likely to get its user hurt or killed as it is the person you are forced to shoot. Just sayin’…

I’m pretty *old school* where gun caliber is concerned, I like em BIG and heavy! I am a huge fan of the .45ACP 230gr round, it IS a *man stopper* and has been carried by many Police agencies over the years and was carried in the Colt 1911 pistol by our military for many years. A .45 ACP is big, it’s SLOW moving when compared to most rounds, but it hits you like a Mack truck!

In its older configuration, 230gr BALL, full metal jacket ammo, it may or may NOT kill the person it hit, but one thing was an absolute certainty, it was going to STOP that person and lay them on the ground and stop them from doing whatever it was that dictated them being shot in the 1st place, and THAT is always a good thing.

Newer .45 pistols are built to accept a hollow point round and not have a *feed* issue like the older guns had. Sadly, many Departments have stopped using the .45, it was just too much gun for some Officers.

The same can be said for the 10mm, a round specifically designed for the FBI, but one that it seems was just too brutal for their delicate little hands, or some such BS.

That leaves most Departments with only a couple of choices, the .40S&W round or the .357Sig, both of which are infinitely better suited to street use by Police Officers than any type of 9mm round.

A .40S&W is a modified 10mm, a shorter and lighter bullet and a shorter shell casing loaded with a lighter powder load than the 10mm. The .40S&W is what the 10mm became in an effort to make a *one size fits all* type weapon.

I have 2 of the .40S&W pistols, both are great weapons and serve their purpose, I carry one for concealment because it IS an adequate round and should be, in MY opinion, the very least powerful round that ANY Police Department should *require*.

The weapons carried by the NYPD, the SIG P226, Smith & Wesson 5946, and Glock 19 are decent weapons. I personally don’t care for a Glock, but if you like em, you like em. Here is the fact of the matter, and NYPD *Brass* needs to pay special attention too; dump the 9mm and the ridiculous 12 pound trigger pull and give your Officers a fighting chance out there.

Give your troops a .40S&W or a .357Sig with a decent trigger pull, give them some *range time* to get used to the idea that they have something to use that WILL save their lives and be a much more effective weapon and I believe you’ll see less incidents of 50-85 rounds being fired at one subject. And you’ll see happier Cops too.

Never mind the fact that 84 rounds were fired, pay attention to this; 14 of those rounds were HITS, the guy is still alive, and that stands in testament to the FACT that NYPD needs to re-think their weapons specs and calibers, with 14 hits, anywhere on the body, this guy *should* have bled out, even if the hits weren’t in the 10x.

Consider this; if you can take 14 rounds and live to tell the tale, your *street name* will be Superman or Bullet Proof, and your *street creds* just went through the roof. :P

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11 Responses to NY cops fire 84 shots at suspect, who lives

  1. Dick Robie says:

    84 rounds against a .22 who fired 1 round. Excessive is an understatement. I see discipline in their future. Having been trained in the use of lethal force, I can not justify such action by any stretch of the imagination.

    • TexasFred says:

      Dick, there is a HUGE difference between us *old guys* and the kids today…

      We didn’t waste ammo, we grew up with single shot rifles and revolvers, 6 shots, we became good shots because to stay alive, we HAD TO BE good shots…

      Kids today; put rounds down range, spray and pray…

  2. TexasFred says:

    And doing some thinking, a few folks are upset because ICE and others ordered several million rounds of ammo… If they expend rounds like NYPD expends rounds, they may need an additional order soon…

  3. Katie says:

    The moonbat idiots in NYC demand that the police use an non-effective weapon. 80 shots and they didn’t kill him? Keystone cops could do better.

    • TexasFred says:

      I agree that out of 84 shots that only having 14 hits is a sign of something being wrong, but it’s NOT the Cops fault, at least NOT altogether…

      NYPD specs of trigger pull and caliber play into this in a huge way… But seriously, 84 rounds and 14 hits, that did NOT kill, is indicative of a serious problem…

  4. Fred, You and I agree on this issue more than most issues. In my opinion the 12 pound trigger pull is by far the biggest factor for officer safety. You and I both know that the 9 is an ineffective round in most situations. That said it is still lethal if placed properly, Proper placement is an impossibility with a 12 pound trigger pull. So why you ask is the NYPD placing this specification on duty arms? Well in the interest of “safety” a group of non professionals decided that th 12 pound trigger pull would make it close to impossible for chidren (and why a child would EVER get their hands on a duty pistol is beyond me) to pull that trigger. How do I know that? After living in Massachusetts when the same specification came into law for civilian arms that was the quoted reason. So I ask is it safer to have a unreasonably tight pull for an issue that should never happen OR to have an arm in trained hands that will place the rounds where they were mean to be placed? (like center mass in the thug who is going to kill our officers if he gets the chance) Keep up the great work

    Michael

    • TexasFred says:

      I agree, the 9mm can, and HAS killed a lot of people, and shot placement is critical, but there is nothing that will ever convince me that a 9mm is a good Police round, and that unbelievable trigger pull, that is incredible…

      What some folks don’t realize is, a .22 can kill with proper shot placement, but it’s probably not going to kill NOW, and it may not do a lot to slow down an attacker until he bleeds a while… Same thing with the 9mm in MY opinion…

  5. That moonbat, anti-gun, lousy excuse for a mayor, Michael Bloomberg obviously thinks the police force is expendable. I don’t think this would be the case under Guiliani’s watch, but I would have to research it. Bloomberg is the top dog in “Mayor’s Against Firearms” (I think it’s called that.) Very interesting post. I always learn new things when you post about firearms Fred, both from you and your readers.

    • TexasFred says:

      HAM, this was in place before, during and after Giuliani… I agree about Bloomberg, and it’s Mayors Against Illegal Guns (MAIG) but what makes Rudy so special? I have never understood why so many people sing his praises like he was going to be *The ONE*…

      He was an NYC Mayor, not all that outstanding, and was, at best, a freaking RINO…

  6. mrchuck says:

    When I finished Quantico, our issue was a Smith & Wesson Model 13 357 Mag Cal. 6 shot, 5 inch bull barrel, no adj sights.
    The heavy barrel was for beat-down on perps, but also stabilized your shot.
    After 7 yrs seniority, you could choose and carry a weapon of your choice.
    All off duty carry was snub 357′s. Only Dept heads could carry 38 spcl off duty.
    Hardly anyone carried Model 39′s or 59′s in 9mm luger caliber.
    I was very happy when the .40 Caliber S&W cartridge became our mandatory caliber.
    It is every bit of a knock down as a 45 auto.
    I liked the 10mm!! It is a longer case 40S&W. Same diameter bullet as the .40 cal.
    But the pussy women officers could not handle it at all.
    Too much recoil! Too much noise! Too much gun!!
    So, the bosses voted it out to appease the female officers.

    For a concealed carry under a shirt on a inside the pants clip or holster, I have not found any .40 cal or larger to truly hidden. or carry sufficient cartridges for me in my dress code.
    This is where the 9mm caliber really tops the list.
    Example, I carry a Kel-Tec P-11, It is small, and has a 10 shot magazine, and with 1 more round in the chamber, double action only, gives me a safe and truly deadly choice using any of the high velocity, hollow point defense cartridges. 11 shots.

    Get your CHL or CFP from your own state now.
    You will never regret it!

  7. Hmm…. The P11 is an outstanding machine, with one glaring exception. Most were sent out with..? You guessed it, a 12 pound trigger! Supposedly, the newer ones are only 8 pounds. But my better halfs trips the gauge at 13 pounds…

    That said, duty carry for a uniformed officer should be as potent a caliber as that officer can effectively handle. The 10mm Auto can be a handful in a 1911 configuration. However, the Glock 20 really tames it. 45 ACP should always be considered IMNSHO and if the officer can’t handle it then the answer is proper training. Not putting lives in danger secondary to political correctness. The all time single shot stopper is still the venerable 357 Magnum, and it to should always be considered. A S&W 65 is tough to beat when the rotating oscillator meets the feces of a real live gunfight.

    All that aside, the City of New York does it’s Police, and citizens a serious disservice in arming those that go into harms way on a regular basis by arming them with a weapon system that has time and time again failed the test of real life gun-fighting.

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