Georgia claims Russians have cut country in half
August 11th, 2008 . by TexasFredGeorgia claims Russians have cut country in half
MOSCOW (AP) - Georgia’s president says Russia’s troops have effectively cut the country in half by seizing a strategic city that straddles the country’s main east-west highway.
President Mikhail Saakashvili made the statement in a national security council meeting on Monday, about an hour after officials claimed Russian troops had captured Gori, about 60 miles west of the capital Tbilisi.
The news agency Interfax cited a Russian Defense Ministry official as denying the reports of the seizure.
But a top official at the Georgian embassy in Moscow, Givi Shugarov, said Russian troops appeared to be moving toward Tbilisi and he alleged Russia’s goal was “complete liquidation” of the Georgian government.
Full Story Here:
Georgia claims Russians have cut country in half
I was just informed that my lunch date will not be able to happen at this time, we canceled, my Marine buddy is tied up in meetings and briefings right now. We’ll try and get together the next time he’s at the Joint Reserve Base in Dallas.
I was also just listening to one of the Ambassadors from Georgia as he intimated that the USA needs to become fully involved with troops and help Georgian forces protect Georgia and it’s borders. Protect and defend Georgian borders? We’re not even doing a good job of protecting our OWN borders. FACT.
Let me ask this, are we prepared to go into WW III against Russia?? Over Georgia?? Are we prepared to lose the troops that it would take in an ill-advised adventure of this nature?? IF the USA were to become directly involved it would be an absolute necessity that the full force of NATO and the UN become involved, in support of us, in support of the American military, and folks, that is NOT going to happen.
It breaks my heart to admit this, but we are NOT the world super power we once were, the Clinton administration literally stripped this nation of it’s military might. The Bush administration has done very little to restore that standing. We DO have an improved capability in the Intel community, Bush did do that, but militarily, and financially, we are NOT in a position to go to war.
Proof you say?? Look 1st at our economy, we don’t have the OIL to go to war. FACT.
Our foray into Afghanistan and Iraq has all but bankrupted this nation. FACT.
Fighting in both Afghanistan and Iraq at the same time has, according to the DoD, stretched our standing military to the breaking point. FACT.
It took our *leadership* 5 years to get a *handle* on Iraq, a nation the size of Texas. FACT. (Do you even remotely believe, in your wildest dreams, that the Bush administration could lead this nation in an all out World War?)
We have an all volunteer military, and YES, that does bode well for a much higher quality and more highly motivated force. But in a time of all out war you need BODIES, lots and lots of BODIES, and that means a military draft. How do you suppose that will go over with about half of this nation?? The libtards that won’t stand and defend America NOW damn sure won’t stand and fight in a *conscript* army, they will run to Canada. FACT.
The way things stand for us right now, militarily and financially, we can’t go to war on a global basis, our position NOW is worse than in 1941 when Pearl Harbor was attacked. And I am referring to conventional warfare only, a fact that our global enemies are well aware of. We have the *nuclear option*, but even in that theater we’re not *the big dog in the fight* anymore, every little pissant nation in the world has a *nuclear option* and when that fact comes into play, all we get is mutually assured destruction, M.A.D., an old leftover from the *cold war*.
Americans have become soft and lazy, we have allowed our strength to go away. The Russians, on the other hand, have used the years since Ronald Reagan to develop their OIL resources and increase their national wealth. They have used that wealth to rebuild, and well equip, the Russian army, all the while the likes of Bush 41, the Clintons and now the Moron in Chief, Bush 43, have allowed this nation to fall into the most ridiculous state of disrepair that can be imagined.
Hang on folks, this ride is about get even bumpier!
I gotta tell ya, this is making my skin crawl. Growing up during the Cold War and participating in ‘Duck and Cover’ drills in school taught me that Boris and Natasha weren’t only enemies of the Moose and Squirrel, but presented a global threat of mass destruction.
The Soviet Union has been dissolved… for now, but the fact remains Russia is in possession of some of those weapons that caused me to have nightmares, and lead me into Military service in the late 70′s.
yep and there ain’t no way any of the western European countries are gonna come to the defense of Georgia either…they are too dependent on Russian oil and gas plus half or more of the Europeans would rather switch than fight and if it means switching to Russian control than I figure they will learn Russian pretty fast.
No, I don’t think the USA nor the EU will risk a nuclear war with Russia over Georgia..and they might not over the Baltic and Poland and the Balkans..The balance of power is swinging back to near even again..and if anything the Russians have the most weight. In the past we had NATO and SEATO behind us..SEATO is defunct and for all practical purposes so is NATO…although NATO is involved in Afghanistan to some extent it is the USA who is doing the major fighting. Looks like the USA is gonna have to go it alone. And we just have to face facts..Georgia ain’t worth risking nuclear war..hell, if we are gonna risk getting blown a way then nuke Tehran Iran where our REAL problems are at…
You asked the 64 thousand dollar question, Fred. Are we prepared to go to war with Russia over Georgia? And the answer is an emphatic no. Just like Russia, although against the invasion of Iraq, was not prepared to go to war with the U.S. over it.
Another important point that cannot be understated (besides our lack of readily available military power) is our lack of credibility in the international community. Calls for an “end to the violence” and “denouncing the invasion” are met by chuckles when they come from us. Afghanistan was needed. Hell, even the French and Canadians helped there. But Iraq will go down as one of the worst strategic blunders in the history of the U.S. And we will be paying for it in more ways than one for a long, long time.
Sad.
RHM
the issue is a bit complicated too, that “breakaway” province is full of people who are Russian citizens, and consider themselves Russians, not Georgians. so it seems the Georgians trying to keep this area by force was the fools errand to start with. it seems to me a thing best left alone by us, it is, really, a local issue. the Russians will be very severe in their dealings, they don’t play games, Russians take war seriously. Georgia should have known this.
The thing is, Georgia was part of the Soviet Union, and their military is just as serious. Russia’s also pissed off that we flew their troops back from the gulf over the weekend, accusing us of getting involved when we shouldn’t. I’d disagree.
There is a major pipeline called the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline that runs from Azerbaijan to Turkey completely bypassing Russia:
“The Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline runs a total of 1768 km., of which 443 km. stretches through Azerbaijan, 249 km. through Georgia and 1076 km. through Turkey. Construction of the pipeline began in 2003 and it began to pump oil on May 18, 2005. [By 2009], about 1 million barrels of oil per year [will be] pumped through the pipeline. Construction of the pipeline cost [more than] $4 billion, not counting the filling of the pipeline, financial servicing or interest costs…” — http://www.kommersant.com
There are reports that Russia have made attempts to take out that line, which means they are trying to economically cripple Georgia as well as achieve geographic assets.
With NATO backing Georgia, Russia may be in for a little more than they bargained for. Russia’s Military is weak and mostly ineffective which may explain why they have hit so hard so fast, and chose to act when international attention is on Beijing.
DemocracyRules writes:
“…Russian equipment is no match for the war materiel that the allied democracies could loan to Georgia. The most appropriate might be a few Patriot missile batteries to take out Russian aircraft, and the new smart GPS - MLRS system. The GMLRS looks like this and it hits it’s target. Don’t leave home without it. The US GMLRS is GPS-guided, and if you program it to hit somewhere then it hits exactly there. Whatever was at those coordinates would be gone. A barrage of smart GMLRS missiles could wipe out most of the Russian heavy equipment within a few days (or hours)…”
http://ginacobb.typepad.com/gina_cobb/2008/08/sitrep-georgia.html
With Russia’s weakened state, if NATO does get involved, that presents us with the possibility that Russia may deploy low yield nuclear weapons… That’s what has me on edge.
You have NO idea how many times I have said that same thing, and you have NO idea how many Bush Bots have called me a traitor, an anti-war idiot, a Saddam supporter, all kinds of bullshit…
But the fact remains, Iraq was a FAUX PAS of Biblical proportions and will continue to bleed us dry for many years, and the bastards have ALL the $$$ they need, and the capability to make plenty more, it’s called OIL, and they have it…
Bush exhibited the most moronic leadership this nation has ever seen in that faux pas, we can only hope that Congress stops the goofy bastard from invading Georgia…
And if George W. Bush were to order the invasion of Georgia, and take personal control OF that Op, God help Atlanta…
Gawfer, some big ‘ifs’….will NATO risk a nuclear war to protect Georgia? Will the European people stand for it? Turkey might jump in the fray..they have never been good friends with the Russians but I have my doubts that Germany, France, or England..let alone Italy or Greece will be willing to get into a fight with Russia..although as you say..I figure that NATO has the military might to beat the Russians..but I also figure the Russians are figuring the same way I am..that NATO will stay out of it because the risk of nukes falling out of the sky is just not worth a fight over Georgia..but then the Russians could be bluffing and if the bluff is called..who knows?
We DO hold a technological advantage Gawfer, but Russia can flood the region with more troops than we can counteract, they have manpower, and they are not afraid to place troops in harms way, knowing full well that they WILL die…
They will just send more troops…
That is exactly what happened in Afghanistan back in the days of *Charlie Wilson’s War*, that was about as realistic as it gets, it just didn’t go into full detail.
And again I have to ask, where in the hell do WE get the money for this?? Bush’s Big Adventure into Iraq has all but bankrupted this nation, and by their own admission, the DoD states that the troops are tired, and who’s damned fault is that?? Uh, does the name George W. Bush ring any bells??
We can’t secure our OWN borders, and THAT should be JOB 1..
Yeah, Georgia IS an ally, but only because it was the politically correct thing to do when they separated from Russia and declared their independence…
And whoopee damn do, they sent 2,000 troops to Iraq… We’ve had well over 4,000 killed, not denigrating the service of Georgian troops but c’mon, they have been flown home by the USA, to combat the Russian army…
Can you say 2,000 additional casualties and/or POWs??
OK, boarding call is on… Will see you guys about 10:30 TEXAS time…
Fred, you say “Protect and defend Georgian borders? We’re not even doing a good job of protecting our OWN borders.” Excellent point, the answer is obviously no, we are not prepared to go to war for Georgia’s borders. But the US, Europe and others who stand for freedom should speak out boldly and make sure that NATO does their job, that Russia understands they are in the wrong. If Russia is allowed to take back Georgia, then what’s next? This is a very slippery slope and I for one do not want to go back to any kind of war with Russia.
Having said all of that, I think Russia has been biding their time waiting for an opportunity to resurface.
I read at Monkey in the Middle that Russia told the U.S. and Israel if we make a fuss, they’ll ramp-up their arms shipments to Iran and Syria. A little blackmail, if true - but then daily dealings, internationally, are always blackmail.
I think this is a redundant comment on my part, but we’ve needed a full-blown blockade of Iran - nothing in and nothing out - a screw the U.N. and Russia. Even now, this blockade would affect everything worldwide. I think we can handle a blockade, I think others would join us and it puts Russia in the position of needing to protect Iran at a time when they are very, very busy.
Back to Georgia: where was intel assuming the Russians have been planning this and moving equipment for a month or two?
Maggie
Maggie’s Notebook
Oil, economics, Oil.
Yeah, that oughta work, what with the Russians being such sane and reasonably forgiving folks that they are… /sarcasm
Ask em, tell em, put up a billboard on Broadway, Russia doesn’t give a damn, they are like the Muslims, they understand one thing and one thing only, and that is *disproportionate force*, and we are in no position to apply that at this time…
Check back in 2012, if the USA still exists…
P.S. We are home… GOD BLESS TEXAS…
Coming from a guy who’s country has a draft for every male citizen (I am going in 2 years from now), I have to agree that it sucks. I am in full support of the military, but it is quite safe to say that a conscript army would do little more than hold for a few hours. The additional manpower does little to hold back an ememy if your guys are not trained to the highest standards and break easily.
What the US could try, is deploy an MEU to keep the civilians of the country safe, without helping the war effort. With Marines there, even the Russians would not dare come close to the camps where the civilians are.
Great Britain did not feel the need to go to war over Czechoslovakia. Look how that turned out.
Putin is Stalin with better PR.
If we are not willing to defend Georgia, will we defend Ukraine? How about Hungary or any of the Balkan states?
Will we finally act when Russia invades a NATO member like Poland, Lithuania, or Latvia?
Putin now knows that we will not. The Iron Curtain returns.
The 2012 Olympics will feature a team from a reconstituted German Democratic Republic. You heard it here first.
ChrisWy, and given the Moron in the White House, the 2 morons that are trying to gain the White House, the FACT that our military is weaker than at any time in recent history, over a 5 year engagement with an INSURGENT force, what exactly do you suggest?? Or do you HAVE any suggestions??
Personally, with the bunch of broke-dicked asswipes we have in the White House, I never really considered suicide to be an option for the USA, but that is exactly what America will be doing if they go to Georgia, AT THIS TIME…
And make NO mistake, this happened because Putin SAW the MORON for what he is and he sees the only 2 options we have coming in for exactly what they are as well…
I have told ALL of you, for a long damned time, we’re going to get what we deserve by electing IDIOTS, and that has NOW come to fruition…
Yeah, c’mon, all of you freaking Bush Bots tell me how wonderful that SOB is now…
By the way, y’all… this Georgia incursion was not a last minute thing. Putin has been planning this thing for months, maybe even years. Look back over the history between the US and Russia and you will see that when Russia launches into a new adventure, they make sure our attention is diverted somewhere else. Putin cannot have missed the likelihood that Obama will be the next President of the US and he knows all the restraints he now has forced upon him, by the US, will fall away and… he will really be on the march. All those small satellite nations around Russia will soon be back in the fold.
Never, ever, turn your back on Russia!
Best regards to all!
Longstreet
I am not an armchair general. Presumably we have people, good people with military experience who can make realistic suggestions for a response.
But, if I was playing an armchair general on TV, I’d have NATO fly some air support missions over Georgia. We could move some fighters to Ukraine or Turkey and maybe some heavy bombers too. Just park them there for now. That might get Putin’s attention.
ChrisWy, well, it’s a damned good thing you’re NOT a General, arm chair or any other kind…
Yeah, we DO have some excellent military leaders and they DO offer excellent advice, and the freaking MORON in the White House is going to go off on whatever path his feeble mind dictates, advice be damned…
Example you say?? Just look at Iraq Chris… We took 5 years to somewhat pacify a nation the size of Texas… TEXAS for crying out loud…
And it wasn’t because of the military, they did ALL they were allowed to do, but the MORON in Chief micromanaged the damned thing HIS way as he ignored any and ALL advice that didn’t fit his plans… HIS goddamned plans… A freaking MORON that couldn’t even make Guard Drills…
Bush 41 began the *Destruction of America*, Clinton and the BITCH brought most of it to fruition, and now Jr has all but destroyed the AMERICA I was raised in…
There is NOTHING we can do for Georgia, we don’t have the whereto at this time, and NATO Chris, NATO is US, if the U.S. wasn’t paying the bills NATO and the U.N. wold cease to exist.. In other words, NATO is a toothless tiger, and the goddamned Europeans and the Balkans have always rolled over and gave in to ANY attacker, that’s the way it rolls in that region…
And until Great Britain and the USA BOTH grow a set, that’s how it’s gonna go down again….
And as far as growing a set is concerned for the USA, that won’t happen ANY time in the next 4 years either…
[...] TexasFred’s: Georgia claims Russians have cut country in half [...]
Will we ever again stand up for what’s right? Or have the PC police already removed what little spine we had left.
Fred, I’m not going to disagree with your reasoning. And I know your motives are honorable. But when do we say enough is enough? Countries are being over run because no one has stood up. Crap. Look at England. Ya might as well call them an Islamic country now.
I guess I’m majorly frustrated at the pickle we’re in. The lack of real leadership anywhere in D.C. has put us here.
Pfft! Change “motives” to reasoning.
(Got lots on my tiny mind today.)
Yeah, I really have NO motives on this, just an analytical thing…
And there IS a solution too, but if I dare speak it the Dickless one will call the FBI and report me for hate speech and sedition…
Because MY solution involves the removal of a MORON… You can speculate on WHICH moron…
Well, I can think of a few morons that are a waste of good oxygen, but I’ll behave.
A few observations: when the bulk of the electorate votes one or two ways, and you vehemently object to those ways and those resulting candidates, there is little in reality that one can do. The cohesion just isn’t there. That in and of itself would boast five or six separate series of blog posts. On the matter of Georgia, already some in the blogworld and in the media are advocating the advance of AMERICAN troops into the Georgian theatre which can only result in staggering tragedy. Putin’s military forces are, quite frankly, shit, but he has massive VOLUMES of shit (not to mention a plethora of weary, dirty, inaccurate fissile materials at hand) whereas we, as you quite properly point out, have but little. In terms of global support I’d also submit we’d have none militarily. We’d get mouthings, hands would wring, but NO ONE would commit. A move into Georgia would be a massive mistake at this point.
BZ
BZ,
I have to say, you are right. I forgot about the media and all their bias (see my comment). Still, the people are dying in scores.
Isaac, yes, they are dying.. And exactly WHAT do you think WE can do??
I’ll tell you what, NOTHING, and plenty of it…
It would be suicide to send our armies into Georgia, sheer, unmitigated, premeditated suicide…
Fred and BZ are right, and as I mentioned somewhere above, neither party has clean hands in this business, while Russia clearly went overboard, uh, what the hell did the Georgians think Russia would do?
our past deterrence policy of the cold war era clearly worked (with Russia, at least) better than our current PC foreign policy, to be frank, Russia knows we are wimps now, and they will act accordingly. is anyone surprised at this? I’m not.