Boy, 8, dies after accidentally shooting self at gun show
October 27th, 2008 . by TexasFredBoy, 8, dies after accidentally shooting self at gun show
WESTFIELD, Mass. (AP) — An 8-year-old boy died after accidentally shooting himself in the head while firing an Uzi submachine gun under adult supervision at a gun fair.
The boy lost control of the weapon while firing it Sunday at the Machine Gun Shoot and Firearms Expo at the Westfield Sportsman’s Club, police Lt. Lawrence Valliere said.
The boy, Christopher Bizilj of Ashford, Conn., was with a certified instructor and “was shooting the weapon down range when the force of the weapon made it travel up and back toward his head, where he suffered the injury,” a police statement said.
Christopher died at Baystate Medical Center.
Police said the boy’s father was at the gun fair and accompanied his son in the ambulance, but it wasn’t clear if he was at the firing range with Christopher at the time of the accident. Police didn’t give the father’s name.
Full Story Here:
Boy, 8, dies after accidentally shooting self at gun show
I have been a serious shooter for 45 of the last 55 years, my Dad was a gunsmith, I had more than ample opportunity to shoot every weapon that came across the counter, and I loved it. I am in NO WAY anti-gun but here is where I split with a lot of my fellow gun bloggers and friends.
I am dead set against full auto weapons being in the hands of ANYONE that is NOT 1) fully trained, 2) an adult, 3) a person with a specific NEED for such weapon, 4) a person that possesses sufficient strength to control said weapon..
Rifles, handguns, shotguns, great, I am a HUGE supporter, but full autos have their place and time, and in the hands of an 8 year old kid is NOT that place and/or time, regardless of parental permission, a certified instructor on hand and supervising, ANY of it, an 8 year old kid has NO business shooting a machine gun!
Tragedies of this nature do absolutely nothing to help the legal gun owners of this nation. The father and instructor may be legal adults in *chronological age*, but the maturity level of these individuals is highly suspect. And further, tragedies such as this give the anti-gun libber left all the AMMO they need, not just to combat full auto weapons, but ALL weapons in general.
I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, some of my gun buddies are not going to agree with this post, and they know my feelings already, we have gone over this same discussion many times in the past, and trust me, I do NOT have any problem with full autos being in the proper hands, but just because some numbnutz can come up with the transfer and registration fee doesn’t meant he should own a full auto loader.
There is a real reason as to WHY the U.S. military uses an M-4 carbine that will NOT fire full auto, it fires a 3 round burst. A full auto is nothing more than an ammo waster, and in the wrong hands it is the most dangerous weapon that law enforcement can face, capable of dealing out massive death and injury. Just MY opinion…
Hmmm… Something appears very wrong with this story.
While in Israel I saw quite a few children shooting Uzi sub machine guns at training ranges there on several occasions. Safety was always paramount. I have to think that a foundational rule was not being observed, and that friends, is a no no anywhere, anytime with any weapon. The recoil from a 9mm Uzi just isn’t all that great. In other words, some “adult” didn’t do their job correctly.
I agree, spray and pray, is not the way!
Just pay a transfer and registration fee? Please Fred, you know that after that background check, and all the approvals all the way up the ladder getting a legal C3 weapon is no cake walk, not at all. It is completely arbitrary as far as being cleared by the local Police Chief, and Sheriff.
(BTW, on the streets of Denver you can by an AK full auto rifle for under $500, no questions asked!)
Somebody screwed up IMO, and they did it big time!
I don’t think any 8 year old should be shooting a full auto weapon. Full auto weapons have gotten away from grown men so for one to get away from a young boy is easy. 9mm rapid fire may not be much to a man but to a young boy it can be more than a handful.
The law allows for citizens to own full auto weapons but the licensing procedures is more than I want to endure. Semi-auto is fine for me. I shot a full auto AK-47 with some Army Special Forces and it wants to climb up and to the right during fire.
You’re right in that tragedies of this type only make it difficult for sensible gun owners.
Several years ago I took my Son and one of my daughters out in our 28 acres pasture, we took a .22 rifle, a .22 pistol and a 30-30 Marlin, I was going to let my son do some shooting, he was 12 I think, his little sister was 9, and she was a really small girl for her age…
As always, I carried a heavier caliber pistol, just because, and that day I had one of my .357 Magnums, my daughter wanted to shoot it and I said NO, it was too heavy for her little hands and the recoil would kick her ass, I had magnum rounds in it…
She was a bit disappointed to say the least.
I wouldn’t hesitate to let her shoot it today, she’s 20 years old and a grown woman, but someone has to take responsibility for our children, and Mom and Dad are where it starts,I had to make a *DAD* decision…
You don’t let an 8 year old kid DO something like this, it’s not called GUN FREEDOM, it’s called COMMON SENSE… Sadly, many folks just don’t have any…
When my kids were little, there were times when they thought I was a *mean* Daddy, I didn’t let them get by with *stuff*, I didn’t allow them to be rude, I made sure they were good kids, and they thought I was MEAN…
Today my Son is an Iraq veteran, a SGT in the National Guard, he won the CIB his 1st week in Baghdad, he is a Sheriffs Deputy, well respected and damned good at his job. One of my daughters, the one that wanted to shoot the .357, is developing her career in Real Estate and is doing a great job, she has a son of her own now. The other daughter is my *free spirit*, she’s a great kid, smart as a whip, a world traveler, she’s 20 and she’s already been to Italy and to NYC, on her own, she’s a church worker when needed and works for a doctor in her home town now.
The kids no longer think I was a MEAN Dad, I was just being a responsible Dad, and was doing the best job I knew to do, and now, my kids know and appreciate that fact!
I wish the father of the child in this story had been as responsible…
I’m with you, Fred - the father was, ultimately, responsible for the safety of the child. And while Isreal children may have been shooting Uzis, I can guarantee that they were not shooting a full mag in one pull - talk about having ammo conservation drummed into you at an early age! - they have been trained from the day they start to only squeeze off quick bursts.
Even back when the M16 was the military weapon of mass use, full rips were not encouraged. Accuracy was utmost. Lead Down Range does not mean anything if Lead On Target is chronically low.
I don’t favor 3-4 round burst controls you might as well have semi-auto. If you need full ‘rock and roll’ that”s what you need especially if you’re ‘room cleaning’. Most people aren’t snipers and that includes most of the military. Put out rounds and keep their heads down while you call in an air strike. (I’m ex-USAF so I favor blowing it all up and bulldozing what’s left)
As for children fooling with full auto or large caliber weapons that’s not a good idea. I taught my kids and wife on a .22 rifle.
You see a lot of silly shit on gun ranges. Like trained officers shooting themselves and others. And that’s why I don’t go turkey shoots any more or to gun ranges. I go out into old strip pits and shoot. Shooting rats at an illegal dump is a lot of fun.
Fred
You know I usally don’t pull my punches, but this story leaves me speechless.
WTF were these people thinking to let an 8 year old kid fire a full auto weapon??
DAMN!
Carl, best I can figure it’s the same doofuses that think I am advocating stricter controls on Class 3 firearms… As I said, and will continue to repeat, sheer f**king stupidity…
I guess JR has no problem with people using full autos that are 1) NOT fully trained, 2) NOT an adult, 3) NOT a person with a specific NEED for such weapon, 4) NOT a person that possesses sufficient strength to control said weapon..
Maybe JR figures every bad ass in South Dallas has a *right* to an AK-47, who the hell knows, as I have said before, regarding *some* CHL holders, a CHL is ALL they hold, but they *think* they are Gods gift to law enforcement…
I advocated PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY, and that was ALL… F**k it, I am tired of stupid people… I see em every day, but this one took me totally by surprise… I guess some people are just too goddamned challenged when it comes to reading comprehension…
And Carl, they were NOT thinking anything responsible, they were thinking COOL… And that is bullshit, it wasn’t cool, it was stupid!!
I remember that day. I got to wear the empty holster, that kept falling off. I did think you were mean, but now I understand. Because I surely don’t want your grandson shooting any gun until he’s ready, physically and mentally!
KrzyBeautiful, you saw *dead people*…
TF: concur. That’s one of the reasons, as Rangemaster, I insisted on having our first military surplus run of M-16 patrol rifles de-armored down to semi-automatic. The exec staff concurred as well. I didn’t want any of our deputies utilizing the “spray and pray” tactic. Yes, we have fully auto MP5s and others available, but they are utilized by the equivalent of our SWAT members who team train constantly, every day.
BZ
Amen BZ, Amen… Spoken as only a man who has spent his life in Law Enforcement can speak, no wonder we DO see as closely eye to eye on damn near every topic…
I am pretty well convinced that ANYONE that screams about owning and using full autos as a *right* hasn’t got the good sense to have that right bestowed on them…
JR is seriously flawed in his reading comprehension, NOWHERE did I advocate making even stricter rules against Class III firearms, I DID advocate responsibility, and if JR has a problem with responsible use of Class III weapons, I have NO desire to ever set foot on a range where a loose cannon such as himself is in attendance…
As I said, it appears to me that JR has no problem with people using full autos that are 1) NOT fully trained, 2) NOT an adult, 3) NOT a person with a specific NEED for such weapon, 4) NOT a person that possesses sufficient strength to control said weapon..
And BZ, you and I have spent our entire lives and careers learning better than that…
Isn’t it interesting that two different people, can read the exact same thing, and come up with completely different meanings.
I didn’t read that you were advocating for any kind of gubmint control at all (I think I’d have a heart attack if you did). What I read was that common sense should prevail.
When I first read the story, I was at a total loss. I can’t imagine any parent walking off to let a kid handle such a weapon. How big are 8 year old boys? How much strength and control do they have? Who the hell was in charge?
I’m also having a tough time trying to picture just how he managed to do this. I’m not being morbid…at least I don’t think I am.
Kate, it would take a pretty f**cked up mind to even DREAM that I would call for stricter gun rules of ANY kind, that was why I was so shocked, at someone that until today I had a great deal of respect for, actually doing so…
He obviously does NOT know me…
You and I are in concurrence, Fred, on many issues.
I’ve said this for a number of years with regard to the two primarily-lethal issues confronting cops: cars and guns. Cars currently kill more cops than guns. I have had the privilege of supervising those two venues as former Rangemaster for my department and current supervisor at EVOC:
I would MUCH rather cops enforce an INTERNAL self-discipline in terms of responsibility, ethics and morals, as opposed to controls placed on us by external and, more specifically, governmental venues.
BZ
One thing about ya Fred….people who read your stuff KNOW where you stand.
This is a sad story….a child was killed…..who else is to blame but adults!….can’t argue with that….they were not responsible in some fashion or another…..I shot the M16 in my Air Force days….we didn’t carry…..just qualified annually and it rode up quickly in full auto…..I am with Basti….call in the planes and bulldoze what’s left….and JR…setting limits for children….and safety purposes doesn’t constitute any desire to bring out the gun control nuts…..or the gov’t…..
I feel for the MOM of this kid, the Dad deserves what he will be feeling (If he has a heart at all) but the mom of this kid had nothing to do with the sheer stupidity of the act. This type of thing does make it to the “Gun Grabbers” reason list.
I have shot MANY Firearms, from hand guns to rifles but I have NEVER shot a fully auto weapon… Wouldn’t mind doing it one day, and I can currently think of several opportunities that would warrant that training…but I digress…
This was a tragedy and personally I think that if ANYONE benefits from this tragedy it should be the patrons of future gun shows and procedures within it. It should not be the gun control freaks.
I didn’t see any place along this thread that Fred called for more restrictive laws re: C3 weaponry, enough said about that.
I spoke last evening with Yakob a retired IDF Commando (Think Ranger) about this issue. he said that indeed, the children do start training quite early. Here are the caveats that surround that; They must be obedient kids, no hot heads. They must be physically big enough to handle said weapon. The magazines are only loaded with a few rounds at a time, as they are taught to just tap off a small burst. Their training does not progress until they have mastered the basics, no matter how long that takes.
You know how it is Patrick, some people can read ANYTHING into the most benign statement, they see a gun grabber under every bed, but that’s OK too, this particular thread exposed, for me at least, the fact that I was wrong in using JR as a source of reputable information… That will NOT happen again, anyone that is THAT challenged in their reading skills can’t be taken seriously…
I guess this will also serve to further that BS about me not letting people post that I disagree with… I let JR post, I called him on his lie, the accusation that I was advocating more laws concerning Class III weapons, and it IS a LIE, it has to be, because there have been far too many people respond here, folks that actually KNOW me, not just on the ‘net, but friends and family, and everyone that has responded to this thread has called BULLSHIT on JR’s ridiculous comment…
I am still just astounded that anyone that has ever read here could even remotely think that kind if bullshit, and to use the analogy of my XD being too big for a kid to shoot, so maybe I think we should outlaw XD’s?? What a CROCK of bullshit!!
JR, if you’re still reading this, here’s the bottom line, YOU are a goddamned fool, a reading challenged idiot, and if that makes some other gun bloggers not want to associate with me, if THEY are too stupid to advocate the same parental responsibility that I do, that ALL REAL gun lovers SHOULD advocate, if they can’t see where having a full auto weapon in the hands of ANYONE that is NOT, 1) fully trained, 2) an adult, read MATURE 3) a person with a specific NEED for such weapon, 4) a person that possesses sufficient strength to control said weapon, and let me add SKILL as well, and not see that it is just plain WRONG to do otherwise, then they are NOT the gun advocates that they believe themselves to be and I don’t want anything to do with them either…