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Group wants prayer discontinued at council meetings

October 15th, 2010 . by TexasFred

Group wants prayer discontinued at council meetings

The Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) sent a letter to Rowlett Mayor John Harper on Aug. 27 requesting that that the council disallow invocations during city council meetings.

“Our national organization, which works to protect the constitutional principle of separation of church and state, has written to you previously about constitutional concerns in Rowlett. I am writing again on behalf of a concerned Rowlett resident and taxpayer and other Rowlett members of the Freedom From Religion to urge you to discontinue the practice of scheduling city council meetings with prayers,� stated Rebecca S. Markert, staff attorney for the organization, in the letter.

Harper publicly acknowledged receipt of the letter during the Mayor’s Update portion of the Sept. 21city council meeting.

“I don’t like the idea of doing away with the invocation. That letter should be thrown in the garbage,� stated Rowlett resident Fred Witzell during the citizens’ input portion of the Sept. 21 meeting.

Full Story Here:
Group wants prayer discontinued at council meetings

The very 1st thing I have to say is this: FFRF is full of BS. Nowhere in the constitution is there even a remote suggestion of separation of church and state, and this Rebecca S. Markert is not only a fool, but she isn’t much of a lawyer if she believes this will hold water.

For those that don’t know, that quote from Fred Witzell, well, that’s me. And I am a highly pissed off resident of Rowlett, Texas! Let’s see if the FFRF responds to MY wishes.

Presented exactly as it is written in the U.S. constitution.

The First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Now, to further dispel the rantings of a bunch of busy-body LOONS:

Separation of Church and State – The Metaphor and the Constitution

“Separation of church and state” is a common metaphor that is well recognized. Equally well recognized is the metaphorical meaning of the church staying out of the state’s business and the state staying out of the church’s business. Because of the very common usage of the “separation of church and state phrase,” most people incorrectly think the phrase is in the constitution. The phrase “wall of separation between the church and the state” was originally coined by Thomas Jefferson in a letter to the Danbury Baptists on January 1, 1802. His purpose in this letter was to assuage the fears of the Danbury, Connecticut Baptists, and so he told them that this wall had been erected to protect them. The metaphor was used exclusively to keep the state out of the church’s business, not to keep the church out of the state’s business.

The constitution states, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” Both the free exercise clause and the establishment clause place restrictions on the government concerning laws they pass or interfering with religion. No restrictions are placed on religions except perhaps that a religious denomination cannot become the state religion. SOURCE

Some folks have a lot of time on their hands I suppose. For the FFRF to take up the cause of ONE Rowlett citizen that doesn’t like the idea of an opening invocation being conducted in our City Council meetings stands as testament to that fact. That one particular resident needs to shut up regarding an opening invocation. I believe there are a lot more important things to be concerned with.

Make NO mistake Rowlett, this is a dangerous thing that the FFRF is trying to foist off on us by means of intimidation and guilt. Do you remember the efforts of a Madalyn Murray O’Hair? We can’t allow that to EVER happen in this nation again. And that is exactly what these FFRF people are trying to accomplish. They are looking to remove prayer from America, one city at a time.

I am NOT an overly religious person. I don’t preach the Gospel. I am NOT a *bible thumper*.

That said, if I don’t want to pray, I’m not going to pray, and no one can make me pray, but I’m going to honor the wishes of those that DO wish to pray, and not be offended by that prayer, but, if any person(s) wish to turn the City Council into a *Come to Jesus* meeting, then I will take issue with that concept. But a simple prayer never hurt anyone.

The FFRF asked the mayor to respond to its request in writing.

I have a suggestion for Mayor Harper and the entire City Council; stand as one, tell these busy-body moonbats to pucker up and kiss our Texas behinds, and then throw the letter that these IDIOTS sent in the nearest trash can.

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15 Responses to “Group wants prayer discontinued at council meetings”

  1. comment number 1 by: Vigilante

    Good on ya Fred. Stick to your guns because it seems as though NO one wants to take your side like some moonbat POS that has nothing more important to do. The council needs to tell them to stay home if they don’t like the invocation.

  2. comment number 2 by: Capt Ron

    Sitting idle and doing nothing is what lets loons such as these do things like not have an invocation to start a meeting, any meeting, whether it is a council meeting, boy scout meeting, or a school football game. America, wake up and get your head out of the sand. Stop waiting for someone else to do something for you, or you get what you deserve- a beat down by the liberals and progressives.
    I think Mayor Harper should file that letter in the round file, and conduct business as he sees fit.

  3. comment number 3 by: Dixon Webb

    Fred . . . Thank you. My sentiments exactly. . . . Bump

  4. comment number 4 by: Robert

    Well said. I can add one thing. Be careful with this Fred and Rowlett, this is just the start. Want to see where it goes from here? Think the Mojave Cross. Think nativity scenes, think any type of 10 commandments anywhere near a school or government building. Want proof of where it’s headed? Look west. Look toward California for a preview.

    Not long ago in our little neighborhood meetings someone asked that we not have an invocation or say the pledge before our meeting because it offended people…. I had to be restrained, and not long after that the individual that complained saw fit to move out of the hood…Don’t really know why…But the goal was met.

  5. comment number 5 by: TexasFred

    Robert — I think it would be wonderful if this supposed Rowlett citizen had the GALL and GUTS to stand in Council and make this motion for himself/herself…

    But I am pretty sure it’s a gutless little twerp that is afraid of it’s own shadow…

  6. comment number 6 by: Always On Watch

    Would these nimrods object so much if an Islamic prayer were recited?

  7. comment number 7 by: Bob Mack

    Liberals know as much about the Constitution as most of us know about brain surgery; but–unqualified or not–they always want to take a scalpel to our founding document. This statement by Fred sums up my attitude as well:

    “That said, if I don’t want to pray, I’m not going to pray, and no one can make me pray, but I’m going to honor the wishes of those that DO wish to pray, and not be offended by that prayer…a simple prayer never hurt anyone.”

  8. comment number 8 by: Steve Dennis

    It always amazes me how many people actually think that the phrase “seperation of church and state” actually appears in the constitution. These people simply do not know what they are talking about. I am also not a religious person, but I take no offense in those that wish to display their faith. I honestly do not understand what is so offensive about it.

  9. comment number 9 by: Always On Watch

    Good book on the topic of the separation of church and state: The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Constitution.

    I use the book as a resource for American Government class.

  10. comment number 10 by: ablur

    “Separation of Church and State” — This phrase was completely foreign to US law until 1947 in the case of Everson -vs- Board of Education. Without citing a single precedent, and ignoring 175 years of historically consistent rulings, the Supreme Court made this claim, “The wall of separation between church and state must be kept high and impregnable.” With that single decision based on nothing, the wall was born.

    Now we seem to be hit over the head with it constantly. I wish we had a method of review, where by the supreme court could re-evaluate a decision without having to find a like case to try before it.

  11. comment number 11 by: Patrick Sperry

    Yet another moonbat national organization trying to force it’s ways on a group of locals…
    Strong work Fred, keep it up.

  12. comment number 12 by: minuteman26

    Fred you might want to mention to the good people at FFRF that the person who started this whole mess was found in a 55gal drum right here in Texas.

  13. comment number 13 by: TexasFred

    minuteman26 — Or not…

  14. comment number 14 by: DanLWar

    Screw them, or her, or him, or whatever idiot it was. Tell them to go to the US Senate floor and take on the damn Chaplain there!

    F… this “make everyone happy” crap! This is a Christian Nation! Read the case law of the Supremes. Even the Europeans, who our king wants us to be more like, are finally getting it:


    BERLIN (AP) – Chancellor Angela Merkel’s declaration that Germany’s attempts to build a multicultural society had “utterly failed” is feeding a growing debate over how to deal with the millions of foreigners who call the country home.

    Merkel told a meeting of young members of her conservative Christian Democratic Union that while immigrants are welcome in Germany, they must learn the language and accept the country’s cultural norms – sounding a note heard increasingly across Europe as it battles an economic slump and worries about homegrown terrorism.

    First time I’ll ever say it!!!: there’s something to be learned from our European brothers (or in this case, sister).

  15. comment number 15 by: minuteman26

    Fred – Am not an overly religious person but I do beleive in God and the Ten Commandments. I also believe that if you piss on the big “G” long enough he will smite you upside the head.